The experience of qualitative research on digital nomads in the online community: mobile sociality, space(s), work-life balance bachelor’s project

I: And speaking of your profile… how do you think you appear to people, who contact you? How do you think, what image do you have?

R: I believe it's pretty positive, because I also have reviews on there, and i'm trying to be clear that yes, i'm a mathematician, i'm mostly a math educator, so that means not only do I understand mathematics, but I also understand how to teach mathematics, and how students learn mathematics at every age. I also am not just focused on one grade span. I am an expert in K-12 and university level - both sides of the content and the pedagogy, we call that - how you teach it, how students learn. And then, I have a technology skills, so I kinda see myself as x-factor, that triple threat, where I can create different types of medias, and I can in various programs, and i'm willing to learn new ones as well. So, because I have 3 different areas of focus, I think I am a leader in my field with that. There's not.. I personally have not found as many people that have that kind of.. this wide range of skill sets, that are very niche in themselves, and then bundle together. And many friends and colleagues, even my subcontractors - they might be great at 2 of the three, or one of the three. But not as many as I know that you know, can do these 3 big areas or more.

I: And speaking of other profiles that you have. You have a blog, really cool one, i've read it. How do you think, what are the main goal that you would like to achieve through this blog? Do you give yourself any, like, aims or… Why do you have it?

R: The.. which one are you talking about, i'm so sorry?

I: This one is blog that you've linked from your facebook.

R: That's right. A suitcase and a smile. That's right. Sorry. So many things going on. So, that's a personal blog, I actually try to not cross that over with my professional site, because I think it is good to keep certain things separate. Now, if some of my clients end up finding it - okay, fine, you know. I don't have anything to hide there. But my blog - it has nothing to do with my work, really, it's about some of my personal passion. So, it's more of a journal too, of my life journey. I don't necessarily tell my clients that i'm a digital nomad, im, I have checks, residency in United States, that's where my business is registered. I don't feel like they need to know how I live my life: they don't need to know if I am married or single, if I have 10 kids or zero, or anything like that. If we develop a relationship and we talk about those items - fine. But yeah, my blog is about my journey on travelling the world and working towards what's called financial independence. So, the short end of it is: I do not wanna work forever, I want to wrap up my career in 5 to 10 years max, and then focus on giving back. So, i'm already part of rotary international - one of the largest organizations in the world, that is based not only business networking, but giving back and helping the world. They're actually biggest contributors to end world poleo. So, it's something that means a lot to me, so when in about 5 years I feel I would have been able to save enough financially, invest wisely, that I should be able to start dissolving my company or taking less and less work, so then i' have more time, so I can volunteer, and.. I wanna be hands on with the volunteerism. I also want to learn how to start scholarships and foundations, and so the time that I need to learn about those, and research and figure out, and try to start on my own, that's what I wanna do for the second half of my life, if you will. So, retirement for me is not just kicking back, sipping a cocktail on a beach - i'm doing that already. It's.. I want to do something else, but I don't want to be reliant on supporting myself with the income. I want to have build a big enough nestage(?), that I can stop worrying about income, that I have physically to bring in, let it just generate on its own in accounts, and then I can go focus my time on other things that I don't get paid for.

I: And how would you like to help when you're volunteering? What would you like to contribute, maybe?

R: Yeah, there's this projects, called, like, potable water projects, that i've learnt about, where there's still several places around the world, that.. we might call them developing countries, third-world countries where they don't have running water or anything like that - more villages. And i've learned through rotary international and other organizations that teams of people get together, and they're able to help build catchment system, so if it rains - you can catch the water, and… these contraptions.. Will then feed the water down these different tubes, and this and that, so people can get it for drinking water, or laundry, or cooking - you know, things like that. Bringing clean portable water to communities, I think, is so important, and would love - I know it'll be a lot of dirty work, it'll be hard work, it will be in remote areas, and it's something that I would like to try, and be a part of. I do my best to donate financially right now, because I don't have the time, I need to focus on my business and generate as much income as I can. But i'm excited to, hopefully, lend a hand, and I don't wanna wait, so i'm 65 or 70. As I mentioned before, i'm 40 right now, so if I can start backing off my business at 45 and really, totally stop worrying of the income by the time i'm 50. And i'm healthy now, I do feel like I can physically offer my hands in my 50s and 60s. I don't wanna wait too long, and then something happens helpwise. And I can't literally be there, boots on the ground, lending a hand.

I: And let's talk a little bit about what you've said in one of the interviews, about home office. You've mentioned that you don't really need a home office. How is it convenient for you to work?

R: Yeah.. When I look for a rental place, I do look at a lot of pictures, and I make sure there's some sort of desk, counter - some sort of workspace. Kitchen table, honestly, tends to work the best for me. I do have a fair amount of equipment that I travel with, so I also.. I don't work in coffee shops or anything like that, I don't wanna take my equipment out, I don't wanna people to see me as a target, as i'm travelling, like `oh, she has all this stuff'. I don't wanna get, you know, robbed. So, I work from the privacy of my rental. Right now in Belize i'm at table, that's outside on a patio. There's a small table inside, but the electricity is really expensive heere. So, if you only run air conditioning at night - i've got 3 box fens that I point on me, cause it's warm, it gets to about 100 fahrenheit right now. But i've got a nice space. So, I carry 2 laptops and an ipad, a microphone, a wireless mouse and all the charging cables. I also have 2 cell phones (just in case one gets stolen and breaks), I have a backup, an older one for a backup, and..yeah. For the most part I like to sit at a table to do my physical work. When I record the audio though, I take my other computer that has a better sound chip in it, and I sit on whatever, like, bed I have. And I put a pillows around the microphone, and I adjust the settings, and.. i'm recording my audio in the bed. And sometimes I have to even put a little blanket over my head too, because there are a lot of birds chirping.. this and that. So, to get all of those noises out.. But yeah, I mean, a laptop and an outlet to get power - that's all you really need.

I: Speaking of your equipment. Does anything change in the attitude of, maybe, locals or other travellers, when they see your backpack?

R: No, because.. So, I have more of, like, a day pack for my typical equipment, but once I get to a location, I don't take my equipment out, I don't want anyone to see what I have. If by chance I make friends and they come over, I also try to move my computers into another room, so it's out of the way, and I also put them up when I leave my property, which i'm not doing now, cause we can't, um.. So', i'm not too worried about.. I live on an island, no nobody can.. unless they have a boat - nobody can really come over here and get me. So, i'm pretty safe here. But i, actually, purposefully travel around with a suitcase and not a backpack, um.. right now. That was purposeful. That was very purposeful. When I did my research about digital nomad lifestyle, I learned about biases, that are out there. I don't stay at hostels, and I don't move around fast. I live more like an expat, if you will. So, somebody that, you know, left their own country and chooses to live somewhere else. But! I keep on moving on. Another term that we use is snowbird. Maybe, somebody live 6 months here, 6 months there, but I don't necessarily stay that long either. So, sometimes i'll stay in the place for one week - that would be the shortest. Otherwise, i'm trying to rent a place for 2 weeks to 2-3 months. It depends on visas and all the others. And I also just found, like, airports.., and physically transit days, when you're getting from the airport to the place - yeah, I see backpackers being treated differently, than.. I don't know, travellers or vacationers - i'm not on a vacation, but!, think, I look like a vacationer, if you will. So… I don't know, I just think that's hard, from learning from other people, it's like “ugh, I don't wanna encounter that”, and, to be honest, I did go by a backpack, I tried to put everything in it, I couldn't fit in everything that I wanted, so i'm like `That's not for me'. But.. now, that i've been on the road a lot longer, I am trying to get rid of more stuff. I don't need as much, and, honestly, I don't want as much. I'm actually trying to downsize so much that I keep my daypack of equipment, but then I really want just a carry on size for my cloths, medicine, this and that. But I don't know if i'll get down to that small [skeptical]. Cause yeah, I don't know, haha, i'm not there yet.

I: Recently you've posted about this. Is this a successful change for you - about the size of your backpack?

R: Yeah, um.. I've really downsized so much and honestly, i'm having a healthier lifestyle overall too. So, because of that i'm losing weight, which is wonderful. Cause as we get older, it's harder - i've noticed that. And I just have healthier eating too, because i'm not in major cities. I don't have these big box stores. I'm choosing to live in small communities, like the place i'm living now has less than 2000 people. This is a small community, heh. I'm probably getting off topic here, with that question, it's just, it's a different lifestyle! I'm just doing things totally different than I ever had before. I used to have a big house and hundred shoes and a closet full of clothes, and all of this stuff. And sure - I miss this or that, but I don't need it. I don't wish I had it anymore. It was nice then, it served me purpose then, but all that stuff I had before would not serve me purpose where I am now - in a beach community. Where bathing suit and flip-flops are, like, all that I need. Sun, and sunscreen, hahaha.. And a good water bottle, I need a good water bottle.

I: Sure! And.. you've mentioned some biases that are.. comes from this digital nomadic lifestyle. What were you talking about?

R: [repeats]

I: Yeah, okay! So, another aspect that I found out when I was looking into this lifestyle and learning about this lifestyle, is.. I was surprised by how many people seemed: one, quite a bit younger than me. So, maybe right out of high school, early twenties, or even mid-twentieth (again, i'm 40), and.. so.. They're like `I wanna travel the world, and I have 5 hundred dollars to my name', and i'm sitting here like `oh.. [confused].. No, I don't think you should travel the world, hahaha!' But that's my opinion, but i'm coming from the point of view that, like, i've grown my career, you know, I understand budgeting and finance, and I understand, you need to make more money than you spend. So… I don't agree with that point of view but lots of people doing it and making it. But the main reason, or what bothers me about that is you now have the phrase `begpackers', where you have these people who wanted to travel the world, and they do run out of money, and they become a burden on that country, where they're not paying tax dollars, and they, you know, begging for the money and support and what not, and so.. I don't like that, I don't want to be stereotyped that way, I definitely.. I mean, it's a shame if it happened and you're not prepared, but.. i'm a researcher and a planner. And I literally sold everything. I had a positive net worth prior to just leaving and going off and doing my thing. And my business was already established, income was coming in. Yes, I have variable income, yes, I have lost clients due to this virus, but [!] I still.. i'm gaining other clients, and i'm being very mindful of my budget. So.. for me, I budget backwards, compared to a lot of other people. A lot of other people will add up to what their monthly expenses are, and that would be their budget, and.. I don't do it that way. I set a goal for the year. This year i'm gonna spend 30 thousand dollars US. Divide that by 12 - 2500 dollars a month. Okay, `well, this country could be more expensive than that country. So, i'll stay in one country for 2 months at a higher rate, that then i'll go live in less expensive countries for 4-5 months'. So, everything balances out at the end. And I said a 30 thousand dollars budget because I make 4 times that amount. I am able to bring in 30 thousand in the first quarter of the year usually - not always, but usually. So, that means, the other three quarters of the year is all profit for me. And again, i'm doing that purposefully, so I can reach early retirement. I wanna take all that savings, I wanna invest that wisely, so I don't have to work forever. I think, a lot of people, they're like `oh, my life is so expensive, I live in a high cost living area', and i'm like `well, you know, you're making choices to do that, I choose not to do that'. So.. make your choice, hehe! I think some people feel like stuck in a away when, they just maybe haven't learned about other options that are out there. So, going back to your original question: the bias there's that digital nomads are broke and barely getting by. And I do see that. I mean, flat out - there is that population. But there are other people that are not.

I: Do you think that age or income plays an important role in this lifestyle? Do you think that there are prerequisites, or.. generally on your experience, have you faced this aspect.. as important for living this lifestyle?

R: I think, anyone at any age could definitely do that. I think, because I had an established business prior to choosing do this, definitely helped me and put me in a lot better situation than others, because i'm not struggling. And you know, to be honest, i.. when I got down here to Belize, everything was really getting crazy here, across the Americas, you know - North, Central and South, you know, shutting down, and unfortunately I was at a place I chose to live early. And the first place I was at is choosing not to reimburse me. And it came out to be a pretty penny 98 hundred dollars. So, essentially i'm like paying double rent for a few weeks, because they're choosing, they're saying I cancelled and this and that. I'm like `ugh.. the world is shutting down..?' And they even left the country themselves right after I chose to move. So, yeah, whatever. Unfortunately, I met not so great people. But! - and i'm upset, obviously - about losing that money. But i'm still sleeping very good, because I have solid emergency fund, and a contingency plan, and.. um.. although I had a forfeit that amount, and March ended up being way more expensive than what I hope it was going to be - okay! It happened. I can plan a little differently, moving forward, and I am just blessed with the people that I am meeting, the place i'm at now, the owners are phenomenal. They're letting me stay here and we're kind of.. I was already planned to be here for a couple months anyways, but i'm gonna stay a lot longer, and they were doing more of a turning it into more of a housesit type of a situation, as opposed to a renters situation, so.. I will still cover all of minimum costs of the utilities and this that and the other. But I am not paying your standard rental rates, and.. i'm very happy, i'm so thankful that these people are kind and generous, and that it's a team, you know. I'm gonna take care of their property, they're not in the country. I'm invested in this, and it will all work out. So, although I got screwed by somebody else, I met other people that are, like, making it right, you know? On that guys' behalf. So, they're good people out there, and I am thankful I found them.

I: U-hum.. And do you really need such a concept as home? Do you have any home?

R: I do not have a home. Legally, for tax purposes, I do have an address. I was last living in Arizona, that's.. I sold a house and car, and all of my stuff. My dad and stepmom - they still live in Arizona as well, they were there. And they have graciously allowed me to use their address for my tax residency purposes. They also do have a guest house in back - that's very common in that area. And, so.. and it's also common in Arizona because there are so many retirees, that.. adult children, if you will, would then at some point in time move in with their parents to kind of help with taking care of then, as life goes on. So, from that point of view, it's not my house. My name is not on the deed, I am not paying utilities for this and that, but it is my legal tax residence. So, I pay Arizona state taxes, I pay the rest of my quarterly taxes. I do have some family heirlooms and a bag there, back there I have some winter clothes and a coat, my diplomas and my golf clubs - cause Arizona is a great place for golfing, so if I do go back, I can do that with them. But it's very very few things. So, really everything that i'm carrying with me is what I have and i'm shocked on how much I still want to get rid of! I absolutely used to be addicted to consumerism and shopping, and wanting more and more and more, and wanting those brand names, labels. And I don't anymore. So, maybe that's the part of growing up, maybe it's just part of this lifestyle, being a nomad, and less is more. Because i.. since we're all on lockdown and we can't go anywhere at all, I am so excited to experience anything! When this is starting to led up, or reopen, or whatever it's gonna be… I want to go snorkel on a private island, I want to go fishing, I don't really like to fish, but I wanna go do it anyways, because i'm here, and that's a big thing to do here, in this part of Belize. I wanna go look at these waterfalls, that aren't let in, and cave tubing, and oh.. And I heard there's a spice farm somewhere, so.. I don't need all the stuff. I am so excited to go and do anything, hahahah! And see anything. And learn. And enjoy these experiences. And take as many picture on my iphone that I can.

I: And speaking of home as a concept, do you really need a `home' as an abstract concept or there's no place for this in your life?

R: I.. so.. I ended up spending almost 6 months in Mexico, and I will say this: I moved 5 times over 6 months. So, I live in 5 different places. There's definitely a level of cosiness and comfort that I have learnt. Um.. I'm staying more in a cabin or cosido right now. And i'm very comfortable, and I do feel at home here. I like what I look at every day. I know, you're seeing behind me, but i'm looking at a beautiful palm trees, and a lagoon, and a Caribbean see, but.. some of the places I stayed at.. in Mexico I found that these cool modern apartments, and they were not cosy, I did not feel at home, I felt like I was a visitor. Like I was a tourist on vacation. It wasn't cosy.. But I think, what's cool about what i'm doing is that `okay, if I find a place and I really like it, then you reach out the owners directly, and be like I would love to extend my stay'. And if they have another booking - okay, figure it out. Or, maybe, they have another property somewhere. But yeah. If I don't like it - I grab my stuff and I go. I suck it up for the amount of time I rented it, and then I grab my stuff and move on to the next one. I have that flexibility, which brought me, actually, to why I chose to be here, in Belize, instead of the US for the pandemic. Because I could! I could grab my stuff and go and I did. I was afraid that I was gonna get stuck in the US, and then I couldn't get out. US is expensive, I didn't want to live in an expensive area anymore. So, I make my home. Some places are more homy than others, but I figure that out and I love the choice. If it's not great - fine , it's not the end of the world, it's for a certain period of time, and then I move on to the next.

I: In your blog, you've mentioned that you have travelled with your sister. Are you really close to your family, or how do you.. like, manage these trips?

R: My family, immediate family is: I have an older sister, 3 years older than me, and then my mom, and then my dad is remarried and has his wife - so, my stepmom, and then she has 3 adopt kind too, and they all also have kids. So, we are blended family, but my sister.. We have one of these typical, like, love-hate.. you know, I love my sister, but there's a lot of things I don't care for, hahaha, about it. We do deep down, you know, really can understand now. Recently, in the past few years we were clashing on a lot of things, so we were having those sisterly fights. It is what it is, but! I still love her at the end of the day, I still gonna call her. Sure, there might be a time and a couple weeks, when, like `i don't wanna talk to you, i'm still mad at you', but she is my sister, and I love her no matter what. So, I don't have to.. and vice versa. She doesn't like everything i'm doing, I don't like everything she's doing, and that's life. I try really hard with my family, cause we've lived all over the place. I personally have lived in 5 US states before I left the US. My mom stayed at Kansas, where we grew up, my sister's been out Connecticut for many many many years not, and then my dad and stepmom, they're in Arizona for quite a while too. So, we've been spread out for the most of our adulthood anyways, so when it came to me to holidays, we would figure out, where and how we're gonna spend it with each other. So, the cool thing was in December: my mom, and my sister and I decided to do a two-week cruise through the Panama canal, from Florida through the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal and down the west side of South America. And that was fun! Of course we still beckered (??) here and there, cause, you know, in this kind of close quarters, but we did had a good time. So, we spent Christmas, not on Christmas day, we spent two weeks together earlier in the month. I did fly back to Arizona for thanksgiving, so I got to hang out with my dad and my stepmom, and yeah.. I mean, we just.. we make it work. Especially now, with i'm doing: I try and plan out: okay - all of my parents are retired, so they're, beside just their busy life being retired, they have a more flexible schedule than my sister and i, who are still working. My schedule's very flexible, because i'm a business owner, and I can say `hey, yes, i'm gonna take the entire month in December off'. My sister still works for people, you know, companies, so I try to be respectful, and find out `okay, what is your vacation schedule? you tell me dates', and then we sit down and figure out: well, where do you wanna go next? What country do you wanna go to? What do you wanna see, and then we work it out that way. So, I love the fact that my family enjoys travel, world travel as well, and that.. It's cool that we can go and crush a hotel room somewhere and just spend time together. So, i'm very lucky for that. Sure, there're you know, some traditions that we don't have, like: Santa Claus comes Christmas Eve, and you wake up Christmas morning - you know - it doesn't necessarily happen in our shared hotel room, but mom still brought christmas stockings on the cruise, you know [excited]. Just.. you figure it out. And it makes it fun, and silly. now it's silly, you know, We're adults and we're sill doing, you know, some of these silly things. I like it

I: Hehe, and speaking of cruise: you have experience of both: trips that are organized not by you and trips that are organized by yourself. How do you feel about it? What are your attitudes to first and second type?

R: You know, i.. the cruise is, and the vacations with my family - those are definitely, more organized, whether I initially, you know, picked it out or gave a suggestion. Normally, i'm the one scheduling everybody's' flights and kind of being the little travel agent of it..to get the logistics set and that's okay. And I am pretty planned with what i'm doing with just for myself. I actually had that planned out through, like, March of next year, where I was gonna go, and.. I thought for a minute actually cancelling my next few countries was gonna give me a lot of anxiety and angst, and come to find out that once I made that decision, and the owners here are gonna let me stay a lot longer, I actually had much peace within myself about that - which is amazing. Cause I know i'm a crazy organizer type of a person. Maybe that again, is kind of age and life that i'm learning to chill out, but I will tell you this: I have signed up to be on a program called remote year, and it's.. it's technically.. I mean, literally it's more of a travel agency, they don't advertise themselves that way. Remote year is an organization targeting mainly newer digital nomads. You have to have your own job, your own source of income. Some people do just save up for this experience, some people have a remote jobs or they have a remote company. And they travel with this group. And they have different types of plans, if you will, packages. I chose to sign up for a four month, itinerary - what they call it is supposed to start in November - will see - a month in Chile, a month in Peru, a month in Columbia, and then a month in Mexico. The reason why I chose to sign up for this program and pay a pretty penny for it, is that I wanted the opportunity for the community. I want to meet other digital nomad entrepreneurs as well. And I want to learn their experiences and, you know, may be able to help them out with what i've done with my business. But I do honestly, I wanna meet like minded people, because I just haven't really done that yet. As I travel, I tend to connect with more retired expats. Um.. i'm not retired, you know. So, now I learn a lot from them because they tell me about their careers and what they've done, and of course, I ask them `why? Why did you choose this location to retire, why didn't you go here?' And I have met some people that.. they retired in one country for 4 years, 4-5 years, and then they moved on to a next, so they're kind of doing this nomadism, but for years at a time. That's need - to see these too. So, we're doing all length of time, but i'm not staying in hostels, i'm not using.. what do they call it.. oh.. Selina's own company.. coworking spaces, sorry. I'm not going to coworking spaces, i'm not in hostels, so i'm not needing that cohort of people. And, honestly, they don't exist, literally, in a village of 2000 people. This is not where that demographic is coming [laughs]. so, I chose to sign up for this program, it's expensive, and.. it's expensive in the terms of like, I spend a lot less for my lifestyle than that, but.. i'm paying for a company to do things that I could do. Unfortunately, I have to pay the price for what i'm hoping to gain out of the community that.. you know, should be there, will see. It all might just not happen at all - who knows. Everything is literally on pause right now. We have just to sit back and wait.

I: And what about facebook community? I've found you through that. So you participate in them?

R: Yeah! I am in a long list of different types of digital nomad groups: digital nomad entrepreneurs,.. I like some of the female only groups.. I don't know - it's kind of nice to find a little niche group. but also, I mentioned personal finance's really important to me, so there's a lot of financial independence groups. We call it FI or FIRE - financial independence retire early. So, I like those groups. I actually, I found a group through a thread last night that I try to join. I'm waiting for my pending request to be accepted.. I think, it's called Badass Digital Nomads. And I found it because I listened to a podcast, and this woman was on the podcast - or the young lady, I should say, I think, she's younger than me - she had mentioned she has group. And I just really liked everything she was saying in the podcast about her digital nomad life, about finances. I could see we're on the same page, with that whole fact of, like, you need to earn more than what you've spent. And not everyone's on the same page, so I like that, I shared that point of view with her. And i've left some other groups recently. Few months ago I left one group, one of the digital nomad groups for just females, and the host or admin reached out to me and said `hey, I saw that you left'. I was just like `yeah, I didn't like.. [pause]' And she and I actually kind of like commenting on the same thread and to each other, and I didn't like something she said to me. I felt like she was attacking my point of view, and as an admin.. I didn't like the admin coming after me. She could have private messaged me and said something individually or whatever. So, when she asked me `So you mind telling me why you left?' - I was a little too shy, I didn't say `because I thought you're attacking me'. I tried to be a little more peacy, saying `i don't feel this is the right group for me at this time. I think, things have changed' - and this was prior to all of the stuff happening, so.. I told maybe in a later time it will be a better fit, right now I don't think it's the right fit. So, I didn't lie to her, but I just didn't tell hers directly. Because you really were nasty, and I don't want to be in a group of nasty admin. I love the Facebook groups. I join a lot, so part of my research as a nomad, like, where i'm gonna go - there's just certain countries that i've been fascinated about, i've heard this or that about it. So, I find expat facebook groups for those countries, and then in those bigger groups for the country, that's how I learn particular communities - different cities, towns, villages to then, start doing research. And then I go look to see `okay, is there group for that area?' - there that is an expat-related or not. Just the area. And then I also find groups in an area for rentals, rental unit, accommodations. So, I try and join those, and it's been great, because that's how I make connections and learn about the different places, like `okay, is that really where I wanna go? Or maybe nah, that's not good for me and my needs'. And i'm glad i've joined all those groups because I was supposed to go to the Dominican Republic next, after that was Panama. And because i'm a part of those groups, and what's going now with this virus, i'm seeing how those communities and those countries are handling the situation, and in my case, I just don't have that good gut feeling or intuition that I would want to go to either location sooner than later. Still wanna go there, but even let's fastford a few months and things are reopening, I just.. I am safe where I am. As much as I wanna see the world, I pray the world is gonna still be there, haha, in future years. I mean, everything is uncertain now, right? But I think it's best. Okay, pause, let me just hang out here for a while, and let me observe to see as things reopen, how are those communities doing. then. And I still wanna go there, but not anytime soon. I'll be surprised if that remote year opportunity.. I doubt it's gonna happen… Not this year, and… they're going to.. like I said, I paid a pretty penny for that, and I paid in upfront, because I negotiated with them. I said `look. If you give me this discount (which is pretty deep discount), i'll pay in full now.' And I literally did that, like, the week before all the stuff started going down. That was a punch to my financial stomach, if you will. But i'm praying that company stays alive somehow, and they claimed they gonna offer, will just keep pushing stuff out, and hopefully, I can enjoy the experience in the future. But I have a feeling that everybody just needs to stay put for the rest of this calendar year.

I: Do you have 5 minutes more?

R: Okay!

I: Because that's a question that I really wanted to ask you. About the expats term and about digital nomads term. Do you think that we really need that term - digital nomad?

R: I think, the biggest difference between expat… It's that working part. I think, people use the digital nomad phrase of `i'm travelling the world and i'm working'. Expats are more like `oh, I moved somewhere', and often they're retired, so they are not generating income. Sometimes they are, but they are more like move somewhere, and they're not planning moving around. In all [?], I think it's so many different variations from it, so fine. Call me an expat, cause i'm not living in my home country anymore. Call me a digital nomad, because i'm running a business online. Call me a traveller because I literally travel the world. I don't care. I call myself [name] - that's what I call myself, haha.

I: So, what are your impressions right now of this lifestyle? Is there anything that you would like to share as a whole about your experience as a digital nomad?

R: I absolutely love it, and I wish I would've discovered it earlier in my life. But again, things happen for a reason. The reason why it works for me is that I graduated high school, went of the college as an undergrad, you know, moved around during those.. It was a five year program for me. After that I got my first job, after that - and I got my master's degree - and then I started moving. I just started moving all over the place. So, from the age of 17-18 to now, 40, I mean, I moved just so many times, i've bought 2 homes before. My first one was at 23, when I purchased a small townhome, had a roommate. And I did it because I got a job. And you're supposed to go to college, get a job, buy a house, get married, have kids.. and then retire and die, right, hahah? Well, I got that house but then I want to move because something else happened. So, I sold a house and I moved. And then I bought another house, because again, I got older; “oh, you need to live in a house”. Well, okay, was there for 4 years, sold that, I made a big profit on that one. So, thank you, cause I increased my net worth, but.. Not everybody needs to live in one place, in one city within one state or just or just province, or whatever it might be near area. Like, it is okay to be transient. I mean, gypsies. So, people can call me a gypsy if they want. Yeah.. So, for me it's great, I've interacted (not met in person, but interacted online) with people. They said they hate the digital nomad lifestyle. they need a home. I don't. They need one place, they need a homebase. I don't. I'm fine with my suitcase and.. I travel with a teddy bear. I love my teddy bear and my suitcase. I'm fine! You know.

I: That's really great! Thank you for your time, I really wish you all the best with your lifestyle in this situation, and really hope you will get well.

R: Thank you!

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