Влияние коллективной памяти притесненных социальных групп на дискурс "прогрессивных" социальных движений в современных США

Приложение 3. Интервью с активистом Black Lives Matter: избранные фрагменты

1) - Have you experienced instances of racism personally?

- So, so many people of color have I would say almost every person of color has experienced some sense of racism. A loss of power, a sense of the loss of power because of someone's race. So whether that is in school being treated as if you're not smart, whether that is being followed in a store one of those the police being particularly brutal and vicious… So many people have so you know… I can't think of like… I'm making think of so many things that I don't even know where to start but with the police… When we saw in protests and one of the reasons why we continued to be in the street is that we know that the police disproportionately target human use of color, that the police in America kill about three people a day, that the majority of people killed by the police are black men and women, and we know that that doesn't have to be like that.

2) - In a previous interview you said that black people can't be racist. What did you mean by that, could you explain that?

- Yeah, so, I you know I'm not the first person I say that racism is about power and white people have power in America. Like systemic institutional power - white people have it. That when we think about white supremacy or white supremacy, it is that white has become normal, and that we've constructed a society where white is centered in everything. And in that society black people can't be racist, because racism is about the function of power like using the power that you have because of your skin color to do things in society. And black people like me don't have that.

3)- It's a sociological definition, the one that you've brought up there, but doesn't it depend on where it's confined to? So, for example, in Zimbabwe, would it be fair to say, if the definition is compliant, that white people can't be racist in that society, because black people occupy most of the positions of political power in that country?

- White supremacy is much bigger than borders at this point. We live in a world, in your country, where all countries that have been colonized… And we live in a world where whiteness functions in a certain way, that whiteness itself has a certain power and a certain currency all across the world. And that is real. So, you know I'm not been in Zimbabwe, so I can't talk about the power dynamics there, but what I can say is I'm confident that whiteness continues to function in a way that's privileged and treated as normal, and blackness is treated in other…

- Worldwide?

- Yes.

- Okay, could you explain why you believe it to be?

- No, that's true, I don't know, like… I don't… In the same way that you believe water is wet and the sky is blue, like we know that white people continue to have… That white supremacy is real all across the world, that racism is real, that colonialism has a deep impact, that in America slavery continues to have any impact in how systems in structures are built, how they function and how they exist.

- How powerful do you think I am as an individual because I was born in the UK, but both my parents were born in Iran so do I have the potential to be racists given my position in society, what do you think?

- Again, this isn't a game of like, how do we play with power, like that's not how we think about this rig, it's not a game, this is like real people's lives. So, we think about… whiteness functions in a whole different way and when we think about what it means that white is considered normal. So, baby dolls look like white people, nude is white people's skin color, it's not my skin color, like band-aids we're designed to look like a skin tone… That is what it means that we've constructed society where white is normal and everything else is a derivation of that. So, this isn't a competition between like all of the others, like well who is the most oppressed, like what does that look like. This isn't a game about the oppression Olympics, it is about acknowledging that white supremacy like is real that whiteness functions in a certain way and that everything else has deemed other.

- But a system is comprised of individual cases and examples, truly, so that they're not irrelevant, are they?

- Yeah, but… I don't know, so… Are you saying so… you… do you think you're white? Are you white?

- Well, no.

- Okay, so like I said, there's… like whiteness functions in a certain way that is very different and everything else has been deemed other in this society. So, you like me like, so many other people like, sit in proximity to normal in a way that is really damaging for how people function in society all across the world. And this isn't a competition about like… Is your otherness the same as mine and like what does that look like, that is what we call the oppression Olympics, and like we don't that is a game that doesn't get us any closer to freedom or deconstructing systems or equity and equality. But again, a technology and that whiteness functions in a certain way so that we can take that and then do the work that we need to do to bring in equity.

- But what I'm trying to say is doesn't the definition kind of fall apart when you look at individual cases and example. So, for instance, between me and you I'm a brown person who was born in the UK, you're a black man who was born in the US. Who can and can't be racist to whom?

- I don't know… Maybe you just misunderstand the definition, I can repeat it: racism is about power, and in this society like, if it is me, you and a white man, that the power dynamic privileges whiteness, that is real in almost every context, that is a real thing and that is what I mean when I say like… racism that in that context that there is someone with more power just because of the sheer color of their skin and that is a real. That is a tangible real thing in this society. It doesn't fall apart at the person level, if anything that is like how people experience it and understand it. So like no matter how many schools I've gone to, how many jobs I have, when I'm out in the street and a hoodie I'm a black man to people and I need that reads a certain way, whereas white people a same context like same whatever their whiteness like protects them or functions in a way that is very different in the same with you. The power dynamics always are at play, and it doesn't fall apart at the person level.

- okay so let's move on…

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