Потребительская лояльность в спортивной индустрии на примере Национальной Футбольной Лиги

“ Самое классное в игре это видеть стадион, само поле, это бесценно” The best thing is seeing the stadiums seeing the inside of the stadium seeing the field. (Барбара, 26)

Таким образом, стадион может являться действительно важным атрибутом лояльности, поскольку у фанатов он ассоциируется с историей команды и всеми теми играми, и событиями, которые произошли на стадионе.

Мерчендайз является принципиально важным атрибутом и для некоторых информантов представляет первостепенную важность. По словам информантов, мерчендайз это хороший инструмент для заведения новых знакомств, когда они видят на улице человека, которые тоже носит мерчендайз их команды, они почти всегда вступают в диалог, что в свою очередь положительно влияет на формирование коммьюнити вокруг команды. Тем не менее, большинство информантов утверждает, что количество мерчендайза не обязательно свидетельствует о том, что ты лояльный фанат. Поскольку мерчендайз, а особенно фирменный, это дорогое удовольствие, некоторые просто не могут себе это позволить. Информанты говорят, что они бы лучше купили билеты на игру, нежели новые мерчендайз. Важно отметить, что у всех информантов, которые участвовали в интервью был мерчендайз, они отмечают, что для них покупка мерчендайза это как экстра способ поддержать свою команду. При этом информанты более склонны носить мерчендайз, когда их команда выигрывает, они гордятся, что их будут ассоциировать с успешной организацией.

“ Я ношу мерчендайз, наверное так как я хочу, чтобы меня ассоциировали с этой командой” I guess it's just I want to be known as like associated with this team. (Кейн, 20)

“ Я чувствую гордость от того, что моя команда успешна. Особенно, когда у Vikings плохой сезон, я люблю показывать свое превосходство над другими фанатами. ” Yeah. You feel proud to be a good team. I'll feel sort of pride you know you wear that to be seen by other fans to show dominance over them (Давид, 65)

“ На мой взгляд количество мерчендайза не определяет то насколько ты лояльный фанат.” No I don't think merchandise defines how strong of a fan you are (Джошуа, 36)

Ещё один атрибут, который большинство информантов отметили важным - менеджмент команды. По мнению информантов, менеджмент может существенно влиять на лояльность фанатов, принимая те или иные решения. В качестве примера информанты приводили различные команды, которые имеют плохой менеджмент и что от этого у команд могут отваливаться фанаты. Только несколько примеров -- это баскетбольная команда New York Knicks, владелец которой был замешан в огромном скандале на расовой почве, из-за этого команда потеряла большое количество фанатов, а также Tampa Bay Buccaneers, владельцы этой команды известны тем, что они очень скупы и не заботятся о своих игроках, они экономят абсолютно на всем. Таким образом, можно утверждать, что менеджмент имеет непосредственное влияние на фанатов. Информанты отмечают, что им очень нравится ситуация с менеджментом команды Green Bay Packers, это единственная команда в профессиональном спорте, у которой нет владельца, командой владеют фанаты, любой фанат может купить акции команды. Одна из участниц интервью купила своему мужу на юбилей 1% от акций команды. Фанатам это очень нравится, поскольку таким образом команде сложнее принимать решения, с которыми фанаты могут быть не согласны, поскольку у них как бы есть голос.

“ Да, мне кажется менеджмент -- это очень важная часть. Допустим, если сравнить Packers и Cowboys. У Cowboys владелец Джерри Джоунс, он миллиардер. Ему эта команда нужна чисто, чтобы зарабатывать деньги. И мне кажется он может купить игроков у которых были проблемы с наркотиками или домашним насилием, ему все равно на мораль. А у Packers принимает решение целый конгломерат людей, а не один миллиардер.” Yeah, definitely. If you compare like the Packers, the Cowboys, like jerry jones is the owner of the Cowboys. he's a he's a billionaire. And He's, uh, you know, he has a team to make money mostly thing. And he doesn't really I don't think he was the kind of like character or something you waste morals very highly. Like, it's And you'll find a guy who might have drug problems or spousal abuse problems or you know, things like that where the back is their own bag conglomerate of people and organizations, they don't have like one billionaire owner. (Кэмерон, 45)

Таким образом, в данной главе мы рассмотрели значимые факторы, которые могут влиять на лояльность фанатов, а также получили интересные инсайты, которые можно использовать в дальнейших исследованиях.



Выводы

Таким образом, в рамках анализа качественных данных мне удалось достигнуть поставленной цели исследования и проанализировать факторы, которые могут иметь влияние на лояльность спортивных фанатов. При этом результаты анализа подтверждают теоретическую дискуссию и эмпирические выводы, описанные в первых главах, а также позволили найти ответы на поставленные в данной работе гипотезы. При этом нулевая гипотеза была отвергнута, поскольку абсолютное большинство информантов указало, что их лояльность зависит от большого количества факторов, которые были упомянуты ранее, а не от перформанс показателей.

Так, первая гипотеза была подтверждена частично, поскольку в ходе анализа интервью было замечено, что некоторые информанты отмечают, что их желание купить билеты было бы значительно ниже, если их команда показывает плохие результаты. Также в процессе анализа выяснилось, что перформанс показатели команды оказывают большее влияние на желание смотреть игры по телевизору именно у более пожилых информантов, содержательно данный результат может быть объяснен тем, что информанты, которые видели уже большое количество игр данной команды в своей жизни, чувствуют большее раздражение и апатию, когда их команда проигрывает. Тем не менее, нельзя сделать точных выводов о причинно-следственных связях, данная гипотеза может быть проверена в последующих количественных исследованиях. Вторая гипотеза также была частично подтверждена, поскольку молодые информанты указывали, что перформанс показатели никак не влияют на их желание смотреть игры, тем не менее желание купить билеты и посетить игру лично может зависеть от успешности команды в конкретном сезоне.

Более того, в ходе исследования была предложена типология футбольных фанатов и описаны индивидуальные характеристики каждой из групп.

Также интересным инсайтом полученным в ходе проведения исследования является разница в восприятии лояльности мужчин и женщин. Для женщин гораздо более важны индивидуальные характеристики игроков вне поля, и их персональная жизнь, в то время как для мужчин это не имеет такого большого значения. Мужчины связывают факторы, которые могли бы сделать их более лояльными именно с изменениями внутри команды, которые помогут её улучшить, покупкой новых игроков или обменом с другими командами и так далее, в то время как для женщин это не несет важности.

Таким образом, выводы, полученные в результате проведения данного исследования могут послужить основой для проведения дальнейшего изучения темы фанатской лояльности, а также инсайты фанатов могут быть использованы профессиональными командами для формирования более лояльной базы последователей.

Однако, стоит напомнить о некоторых ограничениях данного исследования, связанных с тем, что отбор респондентов был проведен при использовании невероятностного типа выборки и без расчетов репрезентации, что говорит о невозможности переноса результатов на генеральную совокупность.

Ввиду причин, описанных в теоретической части работы и ограниченности моих исследовательских ресурсов на данный момент, представляется высокая потребность в проведении количественного исследования для более глубинного понимания исследовательской проблемы.



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Приложение

Гайд интервью

Hi, thank you for agreeing to participate in this research interview. The goal of this interview is to analyze loyalty of sports fans towards their team and what factors might affect it with a special focus on football and the Green Bay Packers.

1) Would you describe yourself as a football fan? On a scale from 1-10 how strong of a fan are you?

2) How did you become a fan?

3) What are some main characteristics of being a sports fan?

4) Would you say some people aren't real fans?

5) What is your favorite sport? The sport you are most emotionally invested into

6) Do you follow any team accounts/famous athlete accounts on social media?

7) What are those accounts?

8) Would you consider going to a sporting event just for fun without knowing any of the teams?

9) Are there any factors that you could foresee that would ever make you become loyal to a different team? Or stop watching football at all

10) If your team got caught cheating would you stop being a fan?

11) Do you mainly watch sports on tv or in person?

12) What is the best and worst thing about watching a game on tv?

13) What is the best and worst thing about going to a game in person?

14) Do you have any specific rituals before attending a football game?

15) How important is it to you that your children/future children cheer for the same team?

16) What words and images come to mind when you think about your favorite team?

17) Would you describe yourself as a loyal fan? What attributes should a loyal fan have?

18) Do you watch football matches even when your team is having a bad season (losing a lot)?

19) Do players have an affect on your desire to watch a game or buy tickets (like a team having star players?

20) Do you watch ads during the game? Do they take away from your watching experience?

21) What are the main things you pay attention to during a game?

22) Have you ever bought tickets to a football game?

23) Would you buy tickets if your team was having a bad season or if there were no star players on the team?

24) What are some things you want to change about the team that would make you even more loyal?

25) Would you still be a fan of your team if they consistently lost? Why/ why not? If not, would you support a different team or stop watching that sport?

26) Why would you keep watching even though your team is eliminated from the playoffs?

27) What are your favorite things about being a football fan?

28) Do you buy any team merchandise? How else do you show support towards your team?

29) Do you think each football team has their own specific character almost like a person?

30) What's your favorite thing about your teams' character?

31) Are their teams that you particularly dislike? Why?

Транскрипт интервью

I: Okay, so, hi, thank you for agreeing to participate in the interview. This interview is focused on loyalty of sports fans to their team, specifically football teams and kind of like what factors might affect their loyalty, stuff like that. In addition, this is a semi-structured interview so you can add stuff. Would like if you feel like you have a good addition that wasn't in the questions you can, like, say something you can you add something that you feel like adding even if it wasn't in the question so First question is, would you describe yourself as a football fan?

R: Yes.

I: And what team do you support?

R: The Green Bay Packers

I: Do you have a maybe a story or recognition of how you became a fan?

R: Um, well, my dad is from the Milwaukee area. And so is my mom. She's from Racine, which is in Wisconsin. So they grew up as Packer fans and their parents, even though they weren't crazy about sports. They grew up as Packer fans. Because in Wisconsin, there's a whole different culture. I remember really, when I was eight, I grew up in or I lived in Appleton, Wisconsin, which is right next to Green Bay. And so that was all over the place. The Appletons were all the visiting players. There's a really nice hotel in Appleton and that's where all the opposing players stay for the week for the games, so yeah, I just remember constantly everything there is Packers all the time. So I remember always one time when I was a kid like dad would take me because I'm sure you know, the whole training camp for the Packers. It's a really big deal in the community. My dad would take me there. So we'd watch Brett Farve practice they have this cool tradition where little kids will have their bring their bikes, and then they'll give them to the players and the players ride them. I remember, I didn't have my bike, but I saw other kids would get autographs and stuff. Yeah. So it was very up close and personal. It's kind of like this, like if you live right next to the Vatican, and your Catholic kind of was like,

I: Yeah, do you think if you lived in a different area that could have changed, like maybe if you lived in Chicago, or something like that

R: I don't' know maybe I'd feel less connected that's possible, but I mean, I have lived because after that I moved to northern Minnesota where there were tons of Vikings fans. And maybe the fact that I lived in Appleton first, move me in all kind of help fortify me. Then all of a sudden, I was just like, using the Catholic, you know, analogy. It's like if you move from living right next to the Vatican as a Catholic and move to Mexico, Saudi Arabia or something, where now all of a sudden you're in the land of infidels, and them as a kid as a kid if we if the Packers lost the Vikings I would there was so much on the line because I could not take it I could not take being made fun of for the Packers. There's so much on the line it was like a holy war. But I still think I'm still being a diehard Packers fan just because my dad my dad was we have he mellowed out but as a kid there would be before I really had no money like the Packers when they lost the Super Bowl to the Broncos. My dad kicked the couch so hard that it like busted something. And so I remember like years and years and years later I like cut myself on the couch like what's going on with this couch is like oh yeah, that got broken during the Superbowl. So I still think my dad my dad ingrained in me to be Wisconsin sports fan for better or worse.

I: And do you know like, do you have any knowledge of how your dad became that way where his parents really big on sports or

R: I guess that's the cool thing where my dad he was adopted and his adopted parents they were very good very loving, I guess like but they did not care about sports at all. It's but nominally they were still Packers fans because they're at Wisconsin. But yeah, he wasn't allowed to play any sports only bowling he was allowed to be on the bowling team, but other than that you couldn't play any other sports. But he just loved sport you kind of get off of it. It's like in his genes or a my dad's actual genes, I guess where we love sports and competition. And so his adopted grandma I think gave him a black and white TV. So he would watch all the Packer games. From there, and the Packers for a long time, they played four games in Lambeau in Green Bay, and then they play another at Milwaukee for my dad. So they were it was kind of a way to make sure that all of Wisconsin was cheering for the packers and so it was close to have them all just kind of on his own.

I: Cool, thank you. So, this may be a hard one, but do you know like, what are some? Or what would you say are some main characteristics of being a sports or football fan like what describes a football fan

R: Football?

I: Yeah

R: Because like depending on the sport, as you can tell, I'm a football fan is different than a baseball fan and like a basketball fan. I mean, from my line of work here, there's No one knows anything about baseball, very few international we know anything about football. But basketball is very glamorous thing and you follow. You follow individuals in basketball.

I: Yeah, that's it. I get it. Get told the NBA it's about the player more than the team.

R: Exactly. So you're like I'm a LeBron James fan and these Chinese kids, they all have their favorite player. They buy the jerseys and they follow them around whatever. One of the girls changed her name, her American name to her she wanted to be called Carl, because her favorite player was Carl-Anthony Towns and they finally convinced her to change it to Carly. But like it's, so she's not a Timberwolves fan. She follows a specific athlete. But then with the with football. What makes a football fan I think there's like and obviously there are different types of fans where I'm trying to there's the The casual fan like my uncle like there's a casual fan who watches the games knows a thing or two follows the news. Then there's like that intense fan who dresses themselves up and looks ridiculous and gets really intense buys all the jerseys and things like that. I'm a little bit different when it comes to sports. I'm more like, I don't know if it's a real word, but like shamanistic where it's like there's like some sort of spiritual, it's almost like a religious experience. Where there's, there's tradition, there's faith, there's sacrifice I don't it's like this really cool and when you are watching that game, I think there's some sort of traditional thing where you're watching it with all the Packers fans before you know like I've never watched the game at Lambeau Field, but Like you're watching on TV, you're with the entire body of Packer fans share with all the packer fans, the past and the future. When you're watching Aaron Rodgers on the field, you can also think of Brett Farve on the field or Bart Star on the field. There's something cool about that. But I guess To be honest, like sports like baseball I think is the best when it comes to that baseball has the most tradition. So real generational game and things are the same but football's changed. But something that makes a football fan unique, I think just because the sport is unique, and it's a weekly thing, where you get to build up for so you have to the same thing goes with like fantasy sports, where with fantasy football, you have I don't know if you if you're familiar with how it all works, but fantasy baseball is like this. This is a long season 162 games. And there's a game every single day. So you need to be focused With fantasy football there's one week or one day, basically all set for Sunday. So every Sunday is like this festival, and then you kind of build up for the next festival. And so I think that's what makes a football fan unique is that you have these events, like even the Superbowl, if you compare the Superbowl with the World Series, the World Series is a seven game affair, where you're not one night, but the Super Bowl is you're all all like, together for one thing last moment, and then it's all over. And then you get ready for the next night. So I think there's something about the time and how it's condensed.

I: And you mentioned the football changed. How would you say See changed over the time, like in your experience?

R: Yeah, even at my expense, like, you can see is getting more and more offensive friendly, but not only offensive more pass friendly, they want to make because with passes you can have the big games and there are the big hits when you're passing the ball. Now they're trying to get rid of that. But like, I don't, I don't know how familiar like obviously, just cosmetically it changes with the addition of helmets and the logos of the uniforms and people they're trying to make it more and more color which is good because it's safer. Well, some people say that it's actually not safer. The some head coaches or coaches say you should remove the facemask if you want to save concussions because now the helmet is like a missile that you can just you just use it as a weapon. But like there are fundamental changes like in the in the 60s. 70s i think i love it the 80s you could, as a defensive player defensive lineman, you could slap the head of an offensive lineman in order to like get past them it was like a legit move. And so guys are getting these concussions constantly offensive linemen because they're getting slapped in the head. But then Offense of line guys like punching the other guys goes a lot more dangerous and so that should but now you're getting more and more pass interference calls contact targeting. With all those roughing the passer. So now there are tons of plays. I remember when it was around 2008 when it really started getting crazy with the rest of the passer where I remember one important game late in the season was decided because a defensive guy had the quarterback wrapped up.

So he thought, okay, I can't bring them down because I don't want to get a flag and then they didn't call a Play and the guy who just runs around for a touchdown. And so you're seeing that now like, that was one time where I I really was frustrated with the sport of football was last year when they call Clay Matthews on those, those ridiculous penalties roughing the passer and that affected games and eventually it gets frustrating because it's what's is it football anymore if you're not going to be allowed to hit. Baseball has the same type of things but not to the same level. And I get that there's there are definite changes that can happen and it would still be football. But if you're going to only make it passing, you're going to limit contact. You miss out on a lot of what football actually is.

I: Mm hmm. Yeah. So next question is there such a thing as like bandwagon fans or something like that. So would you say that, like some people aren't real fans, and they're just there for the hype of it or, like

R: I got I when I was a kid, or in high school, I really really didn't like bandwagon fans. Especially like the Packers is hard to be a bandwagon fan just because they're always such a kind of, it's kind of like being Yankees fan or something where they're always a big name. So how to steer a bandwagon fan, because if there's always that they're always successful, like there are other teams like the Seahawks or the Carolina Panthers had a really good season when you're so everyone became a Panthers fan, and then they suck like they suck the year before and they suck the year after. So there were a bunch of diehard Panthers fans for years. So you're clearly a bandwagon. I never really I kind of associated the same thing with Maybe it's just because of my own, you know, childhood or background where it was very rare for me to get a jersey, especially like a legit jersey, I usually got like the cheap toy jerseys. So anyone who didn't know there are a ton of Packer fans or my classmates who had the nicest jerseys, and they had a million different jerseys for the Packers players. And they even know who they were like they didn't know who was on the team or what they were doing. That always frustrated me as a kid, as a high schooler, even through college, and I mean, I still don't have any jerseys like I am a diehard fan and I don't have any gear at all. But now I'm trying to realize in my older age that there's a this important if you want to have it at all. If you want to have sports you need to have you need to have fans and money. For because I'm not paying money if they were mean out paid for tickets, but I'm paying for the cheapest tickets but if all the fans were me they wouldn't make any money because I'm just there for the you know I'm not giving all my money to it so they need the the guys who are blowing all their money on things they don't need you know if they want to, as the kids are saying nowadays flex on other people does say like, hey, look how big of a fan I am. At this point I go you know, whatever.

I: Yeah.

But you are kind of supporting them with your money by watching the sport because they get most of their money from licensing, tv deals and stuff like that. So, yeah. Ah, so this one is kind of maybe not related to football that much but it's just an interesting to know like, what's your favorite sport or Like the one that you're most emotionally invested into, is there such a thing? Because I know some people say like, I'm more like I like Packers. I like brewers, I like this but like I'm mostly invested like into football or is there such a thing for you?

R: In when I was younger and I had more time I was into both College and the NFL and college basketball and the NBA and baseball. But I'm now in my now I don't have time to watch any basketball which sucks because the Bucs who when I was in high school, I was crazy about

it. Maybe there's something to be said about the fact that they weren't very good, but they try hard here. They're really really good athletes. But uh, so I haven't been able to watch them as much and same with basketball and college football.

Just watch the NFL and Major League Baseball.

What was your question?

I: Like? Is there a sport that you like? Yeah, like I wouldn't miss this sport for anything basically like this event or

R: Yeah, football I have to watch football on Sundays. I have to. I usually don't watch Monday Night Football. And they there hasn't been there haven't been a lot of good games. On Monday night, Thursday night, I'll try to watch Sunday and Sunday Night Football. I don't know what about Sunday Night Football without Michaels Chris Collinsworth. How they presented? I think that's the big the big game of Sunday Night Football. And I always try to watch it and it's like a really cool I kind of get goosebumps just thinking about like the the impact of Sunday Night Football where It's like a way to kind of close out your weekend and get you ready for the week. This watching three football games can be a bit can be a bit much, but it's just I and that's the thing about football is you can do that. Because it's one day and you have the rest like you can, it can become your Sabbath day, right? You just kind of stay there and you just do that. But with baseball, which I love, and I'm a huge fan. I'm probably more attached to the design the factors, and I'm more attached to the sport of baseball. Just from like this a real father son. generational thing baseball's we're football, I think is more open and understandable to the masses. So yeah, one is summertime is baseball season one it's that everything else is for all time. Mm hmm.

I: Do you follow any team accounts or famous athletes on social media? Or maybe like any sports reporters? Are you like engaged on social media was what's happening with your team and stuff like that.

R: I used to be super super engaged with like sports radio. And I would listen to a few guys who I thought were really not like smart, but like had interesting takes, like outside the box. There's one guy in particular a guy named Colin Calvert, who always kind of turned everything into a life lesson. like you'd say the the Patriots are this because remember your remember your friend who always had everything going in school, but he would always turn it into that and I thought it was cool. It's kind of like churches like this, these life lessons that you can learn But then you can also listen to sports radio. But eventually it gets too much. They just give anybody a job, especially being so close to the Chicago market, the Chicago market, that kind of thing sounds like an educated Chicago and like, just be this kind of like meathead type of personality. I don't really do social media too much like, I was on Twitter, then I would follow a lot of baseball stuff, and football stuff. But Twitter's so toxic with just anything, politics. Everything becomes political. So I had to get out, or I would just lose my mind. But then I was on Instagram, as a person. And then I realized, like, I just kind of went, I just use Instagram now for memes. So even I probably follow the Brewers still with that page, and then some sort of like baseball Then Facebook, I don't really I just kind of used to kind of laugh a ironic post that grandparents made. So like, again, in that way, I'm not like the greatest fan of revenue wise because I'm not interacting. And I'm not. I know the bucks and the Brewers have been trying to go like the way of remember Wendy's started where they would like, be like a super informal, you know, Media Presence where they're like making jokes and using slang and posting memes and I know the Brewers and the Bucks has started doing that, which is kind of fun sometimes. But then it's like, it's so clearly them trying to get like some. I'm not huge on I think so. There's a time and a place for social media and sports, but it's so oversaturated we're now information so easy to get ahold of. Everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion As on it, so I just kind of got off. Mm hmm.

I: Oh, would you consider going to a sports event just for fun without knowing any of the teams?

R: Oh yeah, we do that all the time. I like that you came up with that question. That's a that's probably the most fun. Like when we go to we go to random hockey games, or we went to Notre Dame watch a basketball game I didn't know any of the players and that that's because that's the environment you go to a Notre Dame game and that is like that is literally or not literally but it is close to church. For people in South Bend Indiana is a Notre Dame Notre Dame Bruns. It's just huge. So that's really cool to see. I love the atmosphere and I love because that's the thing like I'm not in it for like a lot of new empty Fans are in it for this kind of style

Lifestyle football fans a little bit but I'm in it for like that there's a somewhat spiritual aspect that comes from sports. This tradition of I'm watching people compete within the same rules and the same system that people been in the past and will be doing in the future. And you you connect the experiences you've had in the past, playing sports or watching it with your loved ones and things like that. And so I that's what it's all about, like I don't really need to know. I think some people say or and I don't need to sit right up in the front row and I don't need to wear these huge, you know, or, you know, these expensive clothes and I don't need to buy a hotdog at the game. I just need to sit there and watch it happen and just kind of soak it in. Now I could sit in like the back for sure. I don't need to sit in the front of the church pew with a nicest dress and everything get be the closest I just need to be there. I could be in the background just experienced

I: Are there any factors that you could foresee that would ever make you become loyal to a different team or stop watching football at all?

R: Yeah. Me saying that. My my faith on the Packers at this point in time is pretty shaky. In I have caught myself and I I really have I feel bad about saying I have caught myself cheering for the Vikings a lot more than I used to. But I still want them to lose against but first of all football, that whole claim after you saying I have the Packers were just horrible. And it's all the Packers can be horrible when the Packers were horrible with Brett Hundley, I watched every game. Every second I was at the edge of my seat. I was in agony, but I watched every game. But then when Aaron Rodgers came back and we still sucked and he just has this look about him like he doesn't care at all. He acts like a preak. So they say he's the greatest quarterback, you know, in the game and Oh, you don't want like this whole year, like, Oh, you don't want to give Aaron Rodgers the ball? What's he gonna do? He sucks. He had a good game against the Raiders who were horrible. And then all the time and then he just makes more and more excuses. He refused. He got Mike McCarthy fired who's like this great guy. I love Mike McCarthy. And look maybe but there's that whole Bleacher Report thing where he was like getting massages during like team meetings where Maybe it was time for him to go. But Rogers gave up. And what do we do we give him more money than anyone else has ever seen. And maybe he deserves it for everything he's done for us in the past, but it's hard for me. And so I was cheering for the defense of Shaffer. But having Rogers up there, I'd rather have someone else, and I say that all the time and a lot of Packers fans get mad at me. And they're like, Oh, you're so negative. I'm usually a very optimistic when it comes to sports. I'm like, I think that is a place that should be reserved for optimism. But maybe the real world you should be cynical and look at them cynical. But here's Rogers, really. Yeah. But I still am a Packer fan. Like I still watch the games and I still want us to win. I just want a new quarterback sometimes. Yeah.

I: So So would you say that basically this one person on the team kind of not ruined but To watching experience less enjoyable,

R: like definitely, definitely. And you know, could there's something about the fact that he is such a big media presence. He's on every single commercial, like State Farm constantly and I hate them. Ever since he started to associate down on those State Farm commercials. He's been he hasn't been as good. And the fact that everyone loves him and says he's not overrated, that is hmm I don't know strange. Wow. Like when you see the opposite constantly, it just starts to make you but I think the same analogy can be said about like, like some people get, like, because for me like it is, and maybe in my background, my lifestyle, my my childhood, like it was you go to church in the morning, and then I would race back because I live right next to the church. I would race to the house and turn on the TV and that is football. So it's like from church to church basically for me and so But the same analogy could be said like, just because you have a bad pastor and like the quarterback is basically you know, he's your you see him every day. He's kind of the pastor of that team. Just because you have a bad pastor doesn't mean like your faith and God is shaken, or your faith of the team is shrink, and it's just like, I want a new pastor because it's kind of make this bring everything down. It's hard to watch this one thing. I don't like the kicker, or the cornerback or the wide receiver that the quarterback is. That's a pretty integral part. Guys, especially with what you said, this point is turning more towards the past. Then the run like the quarterback becomes even more important. Yeah, yeah. And now you're seeing since the rules have gotten so skewed, you're seeing quarterbacks who aren't as talented as Aaron Rodgers put up the same numbers like Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, even though I don't know really need either them to be Ryan tannehill like if you find the right system and you know how to play the rules you don't really need to spend a ton of money on a quarterback anymore There are enough quarterbacks who can be successful in the right system and I think LeFluer like I got this is probably a minute point but Lefluer would probably prefer that I just go young quarterback that he can bring up not this big diva who's not gonna listen to anything he says. Mm hmm.

I: If you team got caught cheating, would you support them or stop being a fan and support them not give up being given a title or like,

R: like, you know about this whole Houston Astros thing, right? I cannot I would be so depressed as a fan. There were rumors that everyone was doing it and someone accuse the Brewers but thankfully nothing came of it to win the World. series is so hard and like I get that Bellecheck is known for cheating every once in a while like they spying. But I think it's a lot harder to cheat football than it is for baseball because there's so many different things you can do in baseball you can mess with the ball more like the whole deflate gate thing with Brady. I thought that was ridiculous because whatever. But like with baseball, if you mess with the ball, you can can be a crappy pitcher, that ball can break and do things that most people can't do. To win a championship, especially in baseball, when you have a one one. It's so hard and now that one thing that you went through and you had a good enough team to probably do it without cheating. I would be devastated. And I would but you can't. You can't change teams. Like that's the thing. You can't change things for me. That's one thing I still have against like bandwagon fans. Who have like, they're like people who know a lot about sports and they have four favorite teams. But you can't you have to have one. That's all you can have. Like, I kinda like the Chiefs. And I have like, way before they were good. Because I like Andy Reid. But they're not like my second favorite team. There's the packers and then there's this team. I kind of like watching. The Packers were caught cheating I'd be devastated. if, like, I guess, something happened with finding Bryan Brown was our best player for the Brewers. And he had just won the MVP. And he was accused of using steroids. It turns out he actually did. But he got away with it for a long time because he lied and lied and lied and lied. And all brewers fans were just he's innocent. He's innocent. We love them. And then when it turned out he lied, actually him and Aaron Rodgers that were like really good friends and wants to turn Aaron Rodgers supported them. As the truth turned up implied they have never talked since And we were all devastated. But then we forgive, because he was sorry, we say we forgive. It's over. We love him. He's, he's still booed everywhere he goes now, and that was almost 10 years ago. But we love him and because he's still one of the greatest brewers to ever play. He might have cheated once. And I think it helps. I guess that year we did win a playoff series. That was one of our best years but that was one player doing something. And so I guess I guess we go whatever and everyone's doing it or something, I guess. But when this the Astros that is that's unseen territory, where they are, they know what's coming next. And there is completely flipped all the way through one through nine. All your hitters know what pitch is coming next. For us, we have a guy who's already great but he was and nowadays steroids are used to like, they're not used to hit homeruns they're used to like keep yourself from if you're hurt. You don't want to miss two weeks or a month. You just use steroids to try to help you recover, which is still cheating and it's not good. But it's like one guy doing something bad. And even Bob was so compensating demoralized. I guess we forget him. Yeah, it's the Packers did something that bad or something, I would still be a fan I guess.

I: Could you think of, like something they could do that would make you go like, No, I'm done, like

R: with the Packers or with the sport with the Packers?

I: Yeah.

R: So like they would have to be doing something that no other team was like. Unique that I would hate. I guess if they think that's super I just don't know how it's possible, but I guess they got super political. And you see that coming up more and more with like political protests and things like that. Mm hmm. And not that I'm, I think that they don't have a right to do it. But it's just I also have a right to not be a big fan of either way, like, when people get bring politics on the sports, it's like bringing politics into religion. And that would probably be something if they got really, really political, which I don't see happening. Yeah, but I guess if they got some

I guess there's there's a ton of things that could happen that I wouldn't be able to foresee. I guess it's possible. Maybe I doubt. Like if they're really bad. I mean, I was a fan of the Brewers and bucks when they were really really bad. But the packers are never made the playoffs for a long time. I'll still be a fan. As long as you do it the right way. I guess.

I: Do you prefer watching sports on TV or in person?

R: That depends on offers two different things where I would love to get season tickets to the Brewers. But then you miss a whole lot like you don't you exchange one experience for another, where if you are at the game, you're experiencing all the atmosphere and you're watching it in person up close and personal, but you're losing the analysis, and you have to do it yourself. Like, I'm pretty, you know, I'm pretty competent in all the sports, you know, strategy tactics like, Oh, he's trying to do this, but it helps if you're watching the game. He's like, yeah, I've watched for that stolen base right now. He's probably setting up outside or in football. He's like, watching Tony Robbins so you don't get to watch Tony Romo when you're at you don't get to watch The game with Tony Romo if you're in the stadium, so then you don't have that help was like, he's probably looking at this look at the safeties. So it's good to have him next. So I think every once in a while as like some sort of pilgrimage, to watch a game in person is good. But then I find the flashing on TV because you get a lot of good information.

I: So, um yeah, again, I guess you kind of answered what is the best and worst thing about watching a game on TV so like the best would be the extra information you get, and what would be the worst watching it on TV,

R: Commercials and commercial her or not? only watch that. I couldn't imagine watching an actual NFL game in stands because they, they just stand around waiting for the commercials to be done. They can speed this up like I love how, I don't know if you're following the xfl for the new Football League, they're changing a lot of rules in an interesting way. And they're trying to shorten the game where they're not going to break to commercial. So the NFL relies a lot on revenue. And if they want to keep paying like TV ads, if they want to keep giving the players a higher higher share of the percentage of revenue increase somehow. I know they're doing more of like in, in game or in screen ads, where like you're still watching the thing happen but they have the ads

that's rough. I think you just miss out on all the other senses where you get to sit in, particularly baseball for you get to smell the field. Just to be at Miller Park is one of the and that's another like childhood thing. But just to be at Miller Park is just one of the greatest feelings that tailgating, we should. Sometime when you're here, you should go to a Brewers game. Even though you probably don't know anything about baseball or care about baseball, like the tailgating in Milwaukee. But they had this opportunity. They could have built it right on the lake, Lake Michigan, and they were good. They could have built this really artsy new stadium. But they decided to look at the old stadium was because there's tons of parking. And so they're just going to build a giant parking lot and something on the roof. It's not gonna look like objectively beautiful, but it's gonna be a place where you can have a good time and get together and tailgate. And so every single car is there. And you take your grill out of your car and you start grilling, drinking some beer, listening to the radio, playing like what's it called? beanbag toss, and then you go, you're on Mars. And watch the game and it's like this fun. You have all like the Packers I can I don't have the money or the ability to go to the games. Yeah. Yeah, so you miss out on the sense of the atmosphere and it's not like I guess it's same thing as watching church from your TV being like you're, you're missing out on an extra experience.

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